ken burns' documentaries (miles bukiet, bt #8)
I had the pleasure of interviewing Miles Bukiet from the brilliant new Madrona Meditation app where he brings his expertise and experience in psychotherapy to teaching meditation (guided internal family systems meditations, anyone?). As you’ll see below, his dual background makes him very articulate on the nuance of how to truly enjoy tech in today’s digital world.
JV: Hey Miles, what is a personal favorite technology that you get a lot out of joy, connection, meaning, or purpose from in your personal life?
MB: I adore Ken Burns’ documentaries.
JV: Whoa, nice. You had that pre-loaded and ready for me, didn’t you?
MB: Yeah! I just adore them and they’re easy to access through PBS. There’s a way where you can get them for less than $5 a month. It's some weird combo between PBS and Amazon Prime, and then you get access to the whole Ken Burns library.
They’re amazing for me. On the one hand, they are a numbing agent that takes me out of my day-to-day life when I need a break. But, the stories are soooo fascinating and inspiring that they can also connect me to reality in a deeper way.
History is so wild. And for me it’s part distraction, part inspiration. Those documentaries can also at times become more of a vice for me. I’m watching them when I really should be doing something else. But a lot of times they’re exactly what I need to give me a weird little break at the end or sometimes even in the middle of the day.
Because if I start too early, it doesn't go well. *laughs* Don't start drinking too early in the day, or it just might ruin your day! Same with Ken Burns. But yeah, I love them.
JV: In the same breath, you talk about these documentaries as beautiful and captivating, yet also as a numbing agent and as a vice. Can you explore that tension with me? What is actually happening there? Because those feel like two very contrasting frames.
MB: Hm, you know, it’s like those herbs where if you take a certain amount, it's going to be a medicine, but if you take another amount, it's going to be a poison. If I drink caffeine At 10 a.m, maybe it helps me have a great day. But if I drink caffeine at 5 p.m., my sleep's ruined.
A lot of the things that are hardest for me require some form of strain or vulnerability. At work that could be the vulnerability of reaching out to a new potential partner, or it could be the vulnerability of creating a piece of content that other people will listen to.
And I find especially with that intimate kind of work, it’s inevitable that I'm going to look for anything else to do. And if I've already cleaned up my habits, like I'm not scrolling on Facebook, I'm not watching garbage, not constantly scrolling news. When I've cleaned out all those things from my devices and my mind, I'm still going to go for that next best easy food.
So even though the documentaries really are truly enriching and enlivening, I can use them in an escapist way too. The same thing can even happen with reading novels or biographies. They can be a great part of my day, or they can start to suck energy away from the productive creative pursuits that matter to me.
The same is true on the personal, psycho-emotional level. A lot of times, some of the juiciest healing and relief is going to come from being with myself and being with my own experience. Facing discomfort and being vulnerable. So sometimes I’m going to turn away from that as well.
So it doesn’t matter what the medium is. As great as these documentaries are, geeking out on stories from the Civil War or prohibition or whatever can also take me away from the capacity to actually be with whatever's needing attention at a subtler level inside of me.
JV: I think most people in the modern world can relate to that tension. I think we all have media we love that can also become a poison in high doses. Having worked with the documentaries in this way, what tips do you have for someone to work with that tension in a healthy way? How do we find the medicine without overindulging in the poison?
MB: I don't know if I've totally stuck the landing on it myself. I know that there are a lot of technologies which are a ‘hard no’ for me. So first, see if you can identify the tech that essentially just drains you.
There is a whole category of tech where there's really no good reason for me to ever use it. So there's a whole set of ways I’ve found to create the boundaries that I need from things that fit into the ‘hard no’ category.
It's more slippery with Ken Burns’ documentaries. But if I really listen inside, there's an intelligence that tells me when a certain tech is taking me away from life in a way that's ultimately detrimental, or if it’s helping support a relaxation or fascination or ease that I actually need… or in this particular case, a connection to history and a sense of gratitude. Because for me I feel a lot of gratitude and awe when I connect with history. I stand as the beneficiary of so many brave, creative acts.
This gratitude and connection is a beautiful feeling to have on a day-to-day basis, and on a season-to-season basis too. There's certain times in my life where I need more of that supportive, calming joy and connection that the documentaries bring me. And other times where it's like, no, I’m not using them well at all. I’m trying to escape something or procrastinate with them, whether it’s spiritual procrastination or work procrastination, or even procrastinating in my relationships.
JV: I’m loving this vibe of really introspecting in the moment and noticing how different technologies are influencing you. I talk about this a lot in my book too, when I urge readers to ‘start with awareness’. It sounds like you’ve done this work, and for some things you’ve just decided ‘nope, no point’, whereas for others, there’s value, but it’s slippery.
MB: Yes. Totally. I have a good example. For me, online news was one of the most sticky, addictive, draining, challenging habits to break. And what I ultimately arrived at was that, if I want the news, I should buy a paper or a magazine. Because I can't engage in the online platforms responsibly.
So I think with each of these, there's just so many subtleties. A lot of people are not going to have that problem with that particular piece of technology. But to your point, the key is to make changes based on the awareness of what's actually supportive for my life, for my deep goals, and what's not. Sometimes it’s really helpful to consider, what am I going to regret 10 years from now, or even 20 years from now?
And as I’ve explored this, one thing I’ve realized is that numbing also has value. We do need to remove the true garbage from our lives, but sometimes it’s helpful to find a light stimulation that allows your body to relax and engage a gentle curiosity. Just enough to find ease at the end of the long-day, for example.
JV: I’m so with you there. After a long day of work and parenting, TV might be exactly what I need. No point in shaming myself about it.
If I can just zoom out at the end here: What can we learn about our collective relationship with technology—now and going into the future—from your experience with Ken Burns’ documentaries?
MB: First of all, as I said, can we get rid of the true garbage? The unique things for each of us in our own lives are damaging and degrading and providing no value. Because it’s subjective what is “garbage” for each of us.
From there, investigating the whole class of media that tends to be supportive. Like Spotify is an example for me. I could listen to a whole lot of music, and it’s almost always supportive of my life.
So can we get rid of the garbage and orient towards the range of digital technology that is generally supportive? Then within that range, we can engage in ongoing refinement of the question. What’s really supportive of my intentions and goals and aspirations? And what are my goals and intentions and aspirations?
If you don’t know, that's a great problem to have. There aren’t simple answers, but if we could all be oriented to an ongoing refinement and tweaking, there’s a lot of hope that we can live much more happily in the digital world. I made a whole ten-part course on Madrona about this. It’s all about helping people refine their awareness and adjust their habits to live this sort of happier life.
JV: I love that. Not only is the garbage garbage, but it's getting in the way of our ability to engage in a fun ongoing dialogue with tech, because we're all experiencing whiplash all the time. This is why so many are becoming like “get the tech away from me” as opposed to finding those pockets of joy and connection and meaning.
MB: Attention is such a deep topic. I’m really excited to know that you're thinking about and writing about this. It's the most valuable resource there is. I know it's been a constant struggle to have care and respect for my own attention. And culturally, I hope we can work towards a world where there's more of a general sense of care and respect for the true value of attention.
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— Marc Champagne, Behind the Human (listen to my episode here)